View Full Version : FPS review board
Okay so way back when SdK & 2399 were dominat forces in the world..lol Andy and the boys had to think I was a huge Bullshiiter because I was ranting about how I was developing a racing program with MTV. It wasn't bs and I spent 18 months only to walk away because I wouldn't sign over rights and they wouldn't sign a contract. Well a decade later some might be able to look back and see that I changed that companies outlook on the automobile culture and they "could" tap into it, tho MTV racing has never became a reality and if it does I'd have to come up with a huge retainer since I would sue them...lol
Anyways, the past few years I have been trying to produce a new project independently with no budget but making use of the time I had on my hands. Soon I hope it becomes a reality, the only thing I really lack right now to go into production is the Pro DV Cams. I have built a studio in my bootlegger theme, I have recruited the top racers from the area that launched todays most prominent racing series in Nascar. But Nascar left the bootleggers behind only to turn the phrase into a marketing pitch. Now I have the world baddest Dragstrip for my stage in Thunder Valley. I recently met with Bristol Motor speedway and we have came to an agreement to feature my Outlaw program on reg local night and use that group to beta test my new concept in intramural league racing called the ALR or Amateur League Racing. If the Outlaw series works we have two more classes that cater more to the casual enthusiast and the league can expand to Las Vegas and Z max in charlotte which are both owned by te same as Bristol.
I am no webmaster but everything in this project is up to me since it hasn't made me any money to pay myself let alone any staff...lol but I want you guys to take a look at my site as it is now and critique it.. I still have content like racers bios to add before march 22nd but hows the overall look? Any suggestions to what an average guy might like other than vids which will come later this year?
I have a forum too but it's not intended to be a huge car forum, those are a dime a dozen. Unlike "car Sites" our forum users tho average over 1000hp per user which was my intent to recruit top guys and then use the site as a media to tell the story to the general public...
http://www.racethis.com
I know it's still a work in progress but I also know you all have opinions I want instead of those from a racers. Like 81 year old Willard Kinzer and his stable of 1400hp cars he drives each week to the blue collar guys trying to keep up with the tycoon. My top ten guys are definitely more interesting than Nascars and I am about to tell their story.
Dawson
02-02-2010, 03:34 PM
looks cool tidy! I noticed a few spelling errors so you might want to run the spell check again but I like the look of what you have there, Hope it works out and gets big:)
Yea spell check is killing me.. I've been typing fast and more worried about coding errors. Thanks D
Hope this takes off. I cannot offer you much advice but just as a minor point...Bruton pretty much owns Cabarrus county (Home of CMS and-now-the dragstrip) now as a result of their negotiations a couple years ago so watch your ass with that guy.
Never been to any of the races there but there is also a pretty hot little dirt track next to CMS. I assume you know all this.
LMS, not CMS anymore. Sorry.
I've been to "the Strip" and vegas round track when I worked in Nascar licensing. Charlotte is the Zmax strip with 4 lanes. Gospeedway, Brutons co. owns quite few tracks.
The bad part is I don't have a lot of $$, esp lawyers. The good thing is that my efforts are very public. One of the reasons I was able to get them to collaborate is several of the sponsors are signed on as racers in my program. So it's $$ vs public opinion. IDK how that plays out in other markets, but not tarnishing the tracks image in Bristol is VERY high on the list. Making this happen Dawg, has been like a slow game of chess, now once it takes off it's going to be like an oldschool 2399 vs SDK vs CoC match and eyes will be watering and I'll be twitching from the pace at which things may go....lol
andyofne
02-02-2010, 11:29 PM
Flash intros went out of style a long, long time ago. Especially when they take that long to load. Seriously, as cool as it may be, it has to go.
My internet connection may be for shit tonight but it seemed like everything took too long to load.
I'll check it again tomorrow to see if things are quicker on my end.
The flash file is only like 700k Andy, I mean hell I've only had broadband out here for like 2 yrs and it's as slow a dsl connect you can get ...lol It was easier to update that file than change everything up. Trying to get the php ladder right is what's really kicking my but. But it's not visible to anyone but admins.
The scroller is the only flash element. Not a big fancy flash file, but I did find out tonight that Iphones won't show it either. I have some css stuff I am working on but I need something workable before the season starts, plus I have a ton of work that isn't online related like getting the hauler vinyled, finishing details with the track, working on cross promotion with a few of the local radio stations etc. I realize at this point I'll be able to use a real web guy once I can get revenue flowing.
Tempus
02-03-2010, 12:08 PM
I think it's cool. But then again, I'm pretty easy to please. I hope this all comes together for you, it's been a long time coming.
{2399}Straycat
02-03-2010, 08:04 PM
Nice work on the site brother. Keep us updated on the progress.
Andy, his site loaded fairly fast for me so Im thinkin its on your end ( maybe alot of hops or a seriously overused router )
I finally got my javascript working for my Navbar css, that was kicking my butt. Only one hiccup on the League drop down at the bottom were I intend to add an online ladder for the E-racers to get to use the ladder format we are trying. Thanks for replies. Now it's on to writing the rest of the html pages but my templates done, just need to add the content.
hoser
02-03-2010, 09:28 PM
Flash intros went out of style a long, long time ago. Especially when they take that long to load. Seriously, as cool as it may be, it has to go.
My internet connection may be for shit tonight but it seemed like everything took too long to load.
I'll check it again tomorrow to see if things are quicker on my end.
I mostly agree that flash intros are history, but it took 2.5 seconds to load, not too shabby.
That's a really nice site you have.
andyofne
02-04-2010, 07:42 PM
I mostly agree that flash intros are history, but it took 2.5 seconds to load, not too shabby.
That's a really nice site you have.
I don't know what was going on but maybe the server load was too high when i hit it. I waited over 2 minutes and it was only at 75% when I quit.
andyofne
02-04-2010, 07:43 PM
The flash file is only like 700k Andy, I mean hell I've only had broadband out here for like 2 yrs and it's as slow a dsl connect you can get ...lol It was easier to update that file than change everything up.
This is why I don't like giving feedback. People don't really want it.
andyofne
02-04-2010, 07:44 PM
Today it loaded very quickly... almost instantly.
hoser
02-04-2010, 08:15 PM
Today it loaded very quickly... almost instantly.
That's what she said.
This is why I don't like giving feedback. People don't really want it.
LOL... I was just giving it back to ya Andy, I know you're a tough cracker..
I have been getting hammered by the racers over some specs so you're criticism is ultra soft like downey. These guys have been a part of the entire development and when I ask for their input I have to pry it out of them but now that I finally got Bristol's attention a few start bashing me that I have ignored them.. I am working on the content now. I do have a flash intro but I scrapped it and only kept the scroller because it's more like just a big ad.. The intro had audio and all that and I decided it was too overboard. I will scrap the scroller to but prob not until I get video content. People have real short attention spans and to satisfy that I definitely need short vids to get the general pop interested.
andyofne
02-04-2010, 11:23 PM
I ain't no expert but one of the things you have to consider with flash based web sites is google and other search engines being able to accurately index them.
I really loved playing with Flash when it was the 'thing' to do but these days it's shunned by most web developers. Or so they tell me.
But anyway, like I said, it loaded fine today.
If you look around the css navbar you'll see the other pages are starting to fill in with there first run edition of content. The mainpage isn't completely flash just one table.I am not sure about how google indexes it but the key words and all that are still in the meta tags. I don't have a clue what I am doing really, I just pick it up as I go a long. So any tips on stuff like indexing are appreciated. I know link backs help a lot with google and a link back from BMS should help in the spring when their site gets hammered at for race weekend on the nascar track.
andyofne
02-05-2010, 06:42 PM
If you look around the css navbar you'll see the other pages are starting to fill in with there first run edition of content. The mainpage isn't completely flash just one table.I am not sure about how google indexes it but the key words and all that are still in the meta tags. I don't have a clue what I am doing really, I just pick it up as I go a long. So any tips on stuff like indexing are appreciated. I know link backs help a lot with google and a link back from BMS should help in the spring when their site gets hammered at for race weekend on the nascar track.
Google doesn't really do meta tags these days either.
Skillz
02-06-2010, 03:24 AM
Ditch the flash site. It's not professional. If you want flash, then use it as the logo and make sure it doesn't repeat itself indefinitely.
All those animated GIFs on the forums scream armature. If you insist on using animations, set it to play once.
That scrolling text at the top of the forums, annoying.
Why are you keeping the forums at a fixed width? Not that it's unprofessional either way, but with today's computers most peoples resolutions are far beyond the width of that forum, set it to a dynamic width perhaps?
Navigation. Keep is consistent through out the site. Some pages have the navigation at the very top of the page, some do not (the forums)
Just a few things I noticed right off.
andyofne
02-06-2010, 06:07 PM
All good points.
hoser
02-06-2010, 09:14 PM
Especially about screaming armature.
LOL... I was just giving it back to ya Andy, I know you're a tough cracker..
Dude, he called you a cracker yo.
andyofne
02-07-2010, 12:22 PM
Dude, he called you a cracker yo.
I've been called worse. Much, much worse.
Skillz
02-09-2010, 07:00 AM
Especially about screaming armature.
Amateur.
Seems Firefox's built in spellchecker had a mind of it's own when I misspelled it. lol
hoser
02-09-2010, 07:27 PM
I laughed because it's a car site, so I thought armature was a cool related slip.
It's okay Skills, it was an amateur mistake.
The forums and the main site are a front and back stage. They do not have to be congruent in navigation. The forums aren't for general community interaction but enthusiast. Now that doesn't make sense right, I mean it's car forums right? Nope, it's a media company and the racers are the characters, the main pages are for telling their story to the rest of the public in our market.
The site isn't flash, it's just a scroller within the first page. The file is a precursor to the tube player that is based off that template and will replace it.
The marquee can get annoying but it is a hit with the racers and it's only on one page.
The animations are just easy to spot, eye candy for the regular user. Again, it's a hit with the racers and the forums aren't for the general public. Anyone is welcome but the average user could careless. The regs all seem to like it and I would disagree with your use of amateur. You aren't fond of the styling but the graphics themselves are polished. There may be one or stock stock graphics left that aren't, like seeing white borders on .gif icons but they are minimal at best.
The fixed width for the forums are based on my users. I have a 24 inch monitor but that is not the standard for my market and I believe it keeps a certain uniformity looking at the site from various browsers and rigs. It's just personal taste.
People are lazy. The only part of the site the average user looks for is news, pics and soon video. I have had to pause on the site for a few days because of a distraction, but I should be ready by the 22nd for what I need. An I'll take amateur status, it's fine with me since it's home to Amateur League Racing,so it fits the theme.
Under "The Strips" tab it says "the six tracks located..." but after you tab over there are 8 tracks listed.
Skillz
02-12-2010, 02:45 PM
Well I guess you have it all figured out.
Well I guess you have it all figured out.
hell no, I don't have anything figured out. I just responded to your comments because they were more opinion which can be discussed. My errors in spelling or what have you like Dawson saw are just amateur mistakes I made. The site in general tho, isn't intended to be like other car sites so I don't know what you based professional on by comparison?
Dawg, a few of the tracks don't have reps that use the site so they aren't aware of the project but a few of our guys do go to those tracks so we gave them discussion areas.
Skillz
02-13-2010, 02:18 PM
Everything I mentioned is just basic web design methods. It's more or less the "standard" on web development, but I just touched base. If you aren't interested in that, then don't worry about asking people for critique; when you yourself said you are building the site to suit the people who you target directly, so if they like it...
andyofne
02-13-2010, 03:40 PM
Everything I mentioned is just basic web design methods. It's more or less the "standard" on web development, but I just touched base. If you aren't interested in that, then don't worry about asking people for critique; when you yourself said you are building the site to suit the people who you target directly, so if they like it...
Like I said (more or less), it's pointless to offer advice to someone who has already made up his mind.
This is one of the main reasons I stopped trying to design web sites. It was impossible to take what was in a clients head and put it together in a way that actually worked and resembled what they wanted. Most of the time it was a back and forth battle of putting hours and hours into something only to have the person say 'that's not what I want' and then describe something with lots of animated gifs and flash navigation, etc, etc, etc.
The other part is that I really wasn't very good at web design. It doesn't hurt to admit that, it's just a fact. It doesn't bother me. I'm much happier now when I go download a theme or template and apply it globally and just enjoy the fruits of some other person's artistic labors.
If you're happy with the site then why ask folks for feedback?
I didn't take offense but Dawson found my proof mistakes ( which happen a lot) Andy brought up a valid point on loading time, however the others confirmed fast load on there end and the file is small. Again, it's not a flash site, but the front page has a flash element.
It's not that I didn't take your criticism, but saying something is amateur is debatable, saying something is spelled wrong or that I need to optimize a file wouldn't be.
The web is dynamic, so where does the standard come from? I see lots of impressive flash sites, but optimizing is difficult.
The navigation point was noted which most wouldn't pick up on so I explained the 2 markets for the front end and back end.
Overall impression of the general public was what I was looking for. Text too small, irregular contrast issues etc. I figure you've been on a lot of car sites and maybe that's the standard, but it isn't a professional standard but just average or par for the course. I want to set myself apart from par and be a little unique so I explained it to you or justified what you mentioned. So you didn't think I blew off your comments and realized I welcomed discussion. Had you said that the flash scroller text looks amateur I would have agreed, but just to say flash on a site is amateur I didn't agree with since it's most all pro sites have flash elements.
hell no, I don't have anything figured out. I just responded to your comments because they were more opinion which can be discussed. My errors in spelling or what have you like Dawson saw are just amateur mistakes I made. The site in general tho, isn't intended to be like other car sites so I don't know what you based professional on by comparison?
Dawg, a few of the tracks don't have reps that use the site so they aren't aware of the project but a few of our guys do go to those tracks so we gave them discussion areas.
That's fine. Didn't know if it was an error or not but it appeared to be so I offered it up to be corrected. If it is as intended then all is well.
That's fine. Didn't know if it was an error or not but it appeared to be so I offered it up to be corrected. If it is as intended then all is well.
Hopefully by years end I'll have all them on board. I have been focusing n Bristol though because of the prestige of the track.. It goes on long way towards helping enlist local support having a good relationship with one of the baddest dragstrips on the planet.
http://www.bristoldragway.com/news/dragway_news/558070.html
{2399}Straycat
02-18-2010, 01:10 AM
No matter what anyone says brother, you have a nice site going there and I do see sucess in the future.
Skillz
02-21-2010, 05:18 AM
Like I said (more or less), it's pointless to offer advice to someone who has already made up his mind.
I even hesitated when I made that reply. Thought on it, left...came back and only gave a very short, to the point reply to test the waters. Other wise, I would have given a much more in depth "review" of the site from an end user standpoint. It's all good though, I didn't waste much time typing that. ;)
I'm not the worlds greatest at web design either, but I do understand that basics rather well. :)
So you are upset that I decided to offer it for discussion instead of not replying? I took what you said into consideration but you're missing the issue that you posted style critiques. I tried to explain why I chose the style I did and somehow I guess you take that as bad.
You cannot please everyone with one style obviously. The object is merely to find a happy medium within your target demo graphic when it comes to style. Now grammar errors and performance issues are a different beast in their own.
I wasn't downing your abilities as a web designer but I am not taking them as the rule either. If you're so enlightened then you would need to convince me that your observations were based on more than personal taste. That has nothing to do with basics of graphic design. The site is still a WIP and I did take your comments to heart but I merely disagreed on the style points.
Skillz
02-21-2010, 04:00 PM
Go by some "How to build web sites" type books and read them. You'll see my "opinion" wasn't based on opinion, but basic web design principles.
I have some books but the point is that they are generalizations. And I still fail to see how I am going against the grain. Websites are nothing but cut and paste publications and the web adds a possible dynamic elements.
I grew up around professional art depts and I saw how it was done in print, the web has merely simplified the same old principles. Graphic design has been around long before the web. xhtml, php, css,, flash and all of it are merely elements. The core of it goes to basics of publishing. Visual appeal - performance- ease of use- etc. Getting a book is just following anothers lead and I still say your critiques go back to personal style issues. I could use different themes to give users options so that those wanting a clean look could have one but I choose instead to prioritize repeatability and use it towards brand imaging. These are all things I learned being around professional atmosphere's so I just find it funny to be told to read a book when my influences came from actual publishing entities.
It's like cars, Skills. Their are plenty of documented procedures to follow when working on a car. I usually don't reference a repair manual tho unless it's for specs because I already have an understanding of design and engineering. So if I can fix the car without the book, the book no longer matters since I have my own procedure to net the same results.
Skillz
02-22-2010, 02:53 AM
I have some books but the point is that they are generalizations. And I still fail to see how I am going against the grain. Websites are nothing but cut and paste publications and the web adds a possible dynamic elements.
I grew up around professional art depts and I saw how it was done in print, the web has merely simplified the same old principles. Graphic design has been around long before the web. xhtml, php, css,, flash and all of it are merely elements. The core of it goes to basics of publishing. Visual appeal - performance- ease of use- etc. Getting a book is just following anothers lead and I still say your critiques go back to personal style issues. I could use different themes to give users options so that those wanting a clean look could have one but I choose instead to prioritize repeatability and use it towards brand imaging. These are all things I learned being around professional atmosphere's so I just find it funny to be told to read a book when my influences came from actual publishing entities.
It's like cars, Skills. Their are plenty of documented procedures to follow when working on a car. I usually don't reference a repair manual tho unless it's for specs because I already have an understanding of design and engineering. So if I can fix the car without the book, the book no longer matters since I have my own procedure to net the same results.
Dude, you missed the point completely. You told me my statements were merely that of an "opinion" and I told you, they are not. I can careless how much knowledge you have of web building. Just take a look at all the major web sites of today and tell me just how many of them follow your "layout"... but that's not even the point either. Again, I don't really care anymore, as Andy said
Like I said (more or less), it's pointless to offer advice to someone who has already made up his mind.
Fact is, I; being an end user went to your site. The one you built, without any book reading, that you did all from publishing entities and realized first hand after browsing through the site that I couldn't get back to some parts of the site without 1. Starting over. 2. Hitting the "back" button on my browser repeatedly. 3. Editing the URL to go back to the page. So much for "ease of use"; eh?
Personally, I think the theme of the site looks good. Wasn't saying anything about the "theme" you laid out, which by the way, would be my opinion.
You wasn't asking for a review of the site, as you said yourself. You just want people to pat you on the back and tell you good job.
Good job.
Just like you, I only refer to a book/manual on actual specs that are needed, mostly just torque specs for the bolts. I also do the same when designing a site, I reference books (usually Google) to learn the bit of code that I need to learn. I have also read a couple books that taught me NOTHING about the programming side of web design, but the principles of web layout.
Sadly, you might know a thing or two about engineering but design is NOT one of your strong points. That's for sure.
Kinda reminds me of the old UTGMC forums again... Tidy Drag Racing rocks (Can't wait for this season btw) The site is cool looking. Yes a few mistakes nothing that can't be fixed. (most of which have been pointed out) So i don't think i could add anymore. I do have a question tho. those individual racetrack sites are you building those yourself? or are they alread made? Also once you get a few more people on those forums say from like local racers your sites would be booming after that. Never know you might run into another web designer to help you out along the way. Anything is possible and this is a big project or so it seems.
{2399}Straycat
02-22-2010, 05:24 PM
Go by some "How to build web sites" type books and read them. You'll see my "opinion" wasn't based on opinion, but basic web design principles.
No offence bro, but Ive seen your sites and they really wern't nothin special. It's ok to have an opinion but dont put yourself off as a pro.... His site is well thought out and it's what he wants.
Skillz
02-22-2010, 10:11 PM
No offence bro, but Ive seen your sites and they really wern't nothin special. It's ok to have an opinion but dont put yourself off as a pro.... His site is well thought out and it's what he wants.
I've never claimed to be a professional web designer. In fact, for the most part, I hate the design side of web design.
I was also an amateur while building those sites from back in the day, ;)
The only three sites that I really care the most for are;
www.ut-files.com (the most "full" web site I have)
www.redlined.org (just forums w/ front page)
www.crucesstreets.com (just forums w/ front page)
The rest I'm not worried about, but they are:
www.planetmonsterhunt.com (just forums)
www.planetbunnytrack.com (just forums)
www.skillzservers.com (just forums)
Between all those sites, the only theme "designed" by myself is the ut-files one; but I even used a draft that I based it off of to save time, the rest are all the free download able templates that I just changed the logo. :)
{2399}Straycat
02-23-2010, 11:56 AM
I know your very smart when it comes to web stuff, leroy and I have been to most of your sites. Im in no way saying they were crap because they wern't. Lighten up on the guy a bit bro. ;) Nobody's purrrrfect but I still say I like what he has, so what if has some mistakes... Still looks good to me.
Skillz
02-23-2010, 01:24 PM
I know your very smart when it comes to web stuff, leroy and I have been to most of your sites. Im in no way saying they were crap because they wern't. Lighten up on the guy a bit bro. ;) Nobody's purrrrfect but I still say I like what he has, so what if has some mistakes... Still looks good to me.
I'm not saying the site doesn't look good. Personally, as I've said before. I like the over all theme of the site. I just think the design/layout of the site could be a bit better for the end user. Specifically the navigation.
I know the navigation is a work in progress. The forum navigation is just that and works for the end user willing to become a member, but I know that the majority of visitors are more casual then that. I have to mold The front end as both a promotions tool for the league and also in a photo journalistic way for a fanbase. The content is the issue there. I am still haggling out how to implement the concept considering BMS will only allow so much leeway. Remember too, I am doing this with virtually no $$$. My deal with BMS is cross promotion.
My goal is not to beat Nascar on a big level, but to compete with them in their strongest market. We are going to take back Bristol from the charlotte boys. I have a handful of unique characters with good racing action and I need to package it all so the average joe around here might find our group more interesting than Nascar's handful of characters. If I can do that and compete in my own local market. Because of what market I am in, if I can accomplish this then I will gets the funds I need to grow this. As a biz, there isn't many options to tap the market here, either pay big money 2x a year or sponsoring car shows...there is a big gap in between and I am hoping to tap into that. The web is just a small portion of the whole project but a crucial one. The biggest thing hurting the site is lack of video. People are lazy and video goes a long way to help overcome that and keep attention. So the immediate goal is trying to fund at least 1 hd dv cam @ 5k and to start soliciting my budget. I the end skills, people don't want to navigate at all, they want it right in front of them and I am working towards that. The Nav will be fine tuned as I go but the one man ship has 64 paddles in the water...lol
you know tidy... speaking of big events, You should put up some big money event's. I go to a few each year 3 day events big payouts attract alot of good racers. Not just from the area but for all over. Having a few of these would def help your cause and get people to go to the track. One thing for sure tho, the track crew better be prepared for a big show and make sure not to let anyone down. I think one of the people were Ultimate 64 they put on a show at Edgewater Sports park in Ohio. I know also that some tracks put up big money events or even with Mopar weekend or Ford or just Chevy races. You def have a lot to work with tho. Do you guys have like season points and stuff? we have what they call bracket finals up here. I'm not so sure how big these tracks are tho. Just some thoughts tho
Whiz, Bms preps the hell out of it for NHRA but for the local nights we don't get much. We use that as just another added variable racers have to overcome. Like it was in the early days before tires of glue and tracks prep compounds...lol
All the tracks run Bracket series for points but there's no heads up racing so we have gathered the fastest guys up cuz it's the smallest and hardest class to actually fill. The racers use a modded gaming ladder to just call each other out and then match race the best of 3 on race day. Then like clan matches the wins are recorded and the elo system rates the guys. They have have 1v1 and we also have some of them broke down to teams (instead of clans) If we grow to support small events then we can use match races regularly and tourney ladders for event days. We have a guy racing this weekend at the Night the Lights went out in Georgia event which is 20k to win. I have no doubt this can grow to that point. Putting something like that on successfully isn't as hard as all the politics to get to the chance to open the gate. I never want the drag specific league to get big like ADRL or Orsca, but would like to see it spread to lots of local divisions one day.
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